Manta: If ever there was proof that it was just a granary remake, that would be it.
These are unedited comments about my TF2 map cp_follower, which is heavily inspired by the Valve maps cp_badlands and cp_granary and uses layout elements similar to ones featured in both of those maps. These comments are all about the map sucking, being too big (see image below), and/or bearing uncanny resemblance to Granary/Badlands (I know, I made it!). To clarify, I have not ripped anything directly from Valve map files.
Updated 6/15/09
starclaws: It's official cp_follower blows and is a server killer. Let's remove it? The mario kart map roxorz cp_follower anyday ;p
KnowledgeJunkie: Honestly cp_follower is the first two points on each side from granary, plus the middle of badlands, all set to the alpine theme. Some pretty direct lifting from both of those maps... esp. the middle. He says in the description that they are "influenced" by those maps.
Sanctuary: I played it once and wondered why I was playing Granary.
Fatal1ty Wannabe: I hate this map.
YurfRendenmein: A server should have either granary or follower in my opinion, not both. They are basically the same map except for revamped mids.
Schadenfreude: Disagree. I have the map, and I will debate leaving each time it gets voted in. I loath most maps that don't have enough intertwined paths. The middle section on this map, while "influenced" by badlands, is awful. There are plenty of variances in the map, but they just don't flow well at all. Badlands and Granary are good maps. Follower is like the mutant child spawn of the two of them. I imagine it must be like having two normal people mate and end up with Fran Drescher as a child.
Lstormy10: Too similar to granary and badlands but not as good as either of those two. I rather just play the actual granary or the actual badlands. The map designer should be more original in his designs next time and not just copy and paste for the most part.
TheCid: Agreed on that, though I did think Follower was a bit of a cop-out for Vilepickle- the map layout is borderline identical to an Alpine Granary (though at least the middle fight area is redone entirely)
=zX=tele: this is basically badlands mid point with granary 1st and 2nd, it's not really much of a custom map
datommaster: cp_follower isnt that great. way to similar to badlands/granary.
<[O_o]Div`TinyHotDogs> follower = granary w/ badlands mid and a facelift
skribs: follower is AB-SO-LUTE-LY HOOOOORRIBLLLLLLE!
NiteHawk: follower is randy bad
BiGG: Follower is good, its just too big. They basically took the best parts of granary and badlands, and smashed them together.
gremaudN8: I think follower is terrible. It is it ENORMOUS, and I cant rocket jump across it
<thrasher> ewww
<NaNo> ?
<thrasher> follower
<ph3nom> yup
<macp> !need sub
<NaNo> !add
<ph3nom> thats why i didnt add lol
<distortion> is follower on ocz tourny?
<Onifiro> yes
<distortion> :(
muscles_marinara: and i will be the first to say that follower blows
Anatole: I'm actually not the biggest fan of follower it just seems to actively copy various geometry from badlands/granary so why not just schedule those twice.
<Redah> I went through this map
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<Redah> and i found that it looked too much like granary
<f2> indeed
<Redah> that's the problem of the map i thinl
<Redah> against 100 % original map, it has a disadvantage in the contest
<RaCio> There are 4 maps that have a cp5 that looks like granary
<Redah> Yes but here it's not only the first cp
<Redah> 2nd looks very similar
<Redah> and middle is inspired by badlands
<RaCio> Saw that from the screen yes :)
<f2> the overall map design of follower including control points, forward respawns, first respawn and areas between the cps are very similar to granary (and the middle point is similar to badlands)
<remO^> in my opinion the look of a map has nothing to do with the gameplay, follow may provide completely different gameplay to bad and gran
<Redah> my personal top 3 goes, for now, to Worselands, Ash Ridge and Hillside
<remO^> and by look i dont mean theme or anything, just general layout
<f2> if you make the same layout, it will be the same gameplay
<f2> of course
<Redah> The layout is not the same, but it is very similar
Newbie: From the screenshots it looks a lot like the layout of granary, too much like granary.
Shintaz: Granary + lumberyard = this by the looks of the screenshots.
Still, it does look pretty well layed out. We’ll see how it goes.
perry: will prolly be either this or arnold’s map to take the win, both are amazing and all that i would just like to see some new good maps that haven’t got their basic layout’s taken from granary/badlands, ah well :F
Buck: Looks a LOT like granary. Actaully looks like granary with alpine theme, layout almost identical :/
Still it looks very nice, will check it out when you post the bsp :)
F2:
I have to say I am disappointed about this map. We do want a competitive 5cp map, but no one asked for a remake of granary/badlands. And this is exactly that. Just take a look at the similarities. And there’s other similarities, like the position of the second & third respawn are the same as on granary (except it’s mirrored position).
It doesn’t mean that the map isn’t good in competitive play. It might very well be (especially given that badlands and granary are). But in its current form I don’t hope this map comes anywhere near winning the contest. It just doesn’t deserve it.
Instead innovative maps like mapnel and hillside should win. Not only do they have cap points not seen in 5cp maps before, but for example on hillside there’s no forward respawn when you cap the middle point, instead there are certain gates that open/close making it easier for the team that has cp3 to come from cp1 to cp3. And it turns out that it actually works in 6v6! Original design that works in 6v6 is what should be rewarded in this competition imo.
babE: have to agree with f2… it even have the same “shithouse” as badlands.. the middle is just like badlands but with another theme.. last too..
Newbie:
I’ts granary, with a few door twists, a badlands bridge and jump routes made in to pathways.
This sort of map angers me as a mapper; why? It’s a blatent rip off of an existing map by layout which shows an amazingly large amount of lack of thought and talent. It’s a pretty map sure, but it is by no means your own work.
seppo: People always wanted a map similiar to granary and badlands and now when someone has made it, it gets flamed? :D
wer: yes, its very similar, but we dont know how it plays yet
F2:
Yeah, all I’m saying is if all contestants made granary/badlands remakes then we’d have 15 granary/badlands maps, and I can’t see the usefulness of that.
Be creative.
Vali: Either way Vilepickle, I think I have to agree with F2 in that while a lot of people do want another badlands or granary, they don’t actually want exactly the same map. It’s more what those maps represent (balanced, fun match gameplay) than the specific layouts themselves and I hope that the map that does win this competition will do so with a unique design.
Puppets the Phantom Ranger: i have to agree with f2 tbh, id rather see a original map winning the contest than one that is a mix out of badlands and granary
Newbie: vilepickle you should only take my comments as an insult if you set out to think up no entire layout yourself. To me it looks like you stole a figure of 8 layout and made it completely like granary with a few pretty twists of your own. Which is greatly wrong.
wer: i like the changes, its a little less of a granary/badlands copy now
morf:
this is what you get from a threesome with badlands, granary and a little tad well
as said, be more creative, its a cool map, but id rather see new ideas
<Daggial> didnt like that follower too much
<Space^> wot
<Space^> awesome map
<f2> you didn't play?
<Daggial> too much "badary" XD
<Daggial> or granland
<f2> greenland
<Redah> too big
<Redah> somehow it doesn't work
<Space^> its a realli good map hes used to well known and good maps combines and made it its own map
<Redah> it's like granlands but not as good :x
<Daggial> but it's still good improved from last week
<RaCio> the space between second and mid needs some changes
<Daggial> Ranger|Cake is good that you tryed a new way istead of a copy of badlands/granary like most of the maps i've seen
<Daggial> XD
heah: Looks a little too much like badwater and granary...
Tinker: It's... very much like granary and badlands. As in, points 4 and 5 are almost a carbon copy of the same points in granary. While I don't mind that, gameplay-wise, as you made enough interesting changes to make it different, it still bothers me a lot.
Psy-UK: I agree with Tinker. Though it's a very nice map and I appreciate that Vilepickle revealed that it was heavily inspired by Granary and Badlands, it's too much like them, so much so that I was quite shocked that some parts are 90% identical.
Kuchiki_Byakuya: I remember a CS 1.6 map very similar on BLU respawn, could it be possible?
: What are your plans to target the criticisms that this map is too similar to Granary and Badlands? If you do.
Zanpa: Gameplay: It's good...
But what, it's just Granary with Badlands middle. Not a good point for you.
You didn't made anything new besides the looks and a few details.
Manta: Because a) It has no soul and b) It doesn't bring anything new to the game.
If I want to play a map like granary, I'll go play granary. Custom maps ideally have some new paradigm or architechture that gives it a new gameplay experience.
chron don: Granary and Badlands had a baby, and that baby's name is Follower
Retrovertigo: We dont mind the other two, even if follower is just a blatant ripoff of granary/badlands
Retrovertigo: Follower though the blatant ripoff of badlands/granary it is, also still plays well (because blands and gaynary are amazing maps?) and I do like it.
Hey You: I played it last night on another server. It feels like granary and badlands had a baby and this is what came out. Im not a fan of 5 point cap maps but this one will probally get picked up eventually (much better than fastlanes).
<c-106mc@EF> Hey can we take Follower off the map list? It's Granary+Badlands :U
<c-106mc@EF> Actually
<c-106mc@EF> Nevermind
<c-106mc@EF> that's stupid of me
<c-106mc@EF> I should think before I speak.
<c-106mc@EF> We've been playing Follower for like
<c-106mc@EF> half an hour
<Ensiform@EF> its it in a loop of restarting it
<Ensiform@EF> or just
<Ensiform@EF> not finishing
<Ensiform@EF> rtv?
<c-106mc@EF> not finishing
<c-106mc@EF> not many people seem to want to rtv
<c-106mc@EF> I
<c-106mc@EF> hate
<c-106mc@EF> Follower
<Hitman--> good thing we dont put maps up for our admins...we do it for the public..if we did it for our admins we would have 4 24/7 servers
<c-106mc@EF> I know Hitman
<c-106mc@EF> But I do believe I can express my opinion. :P
<Hitman--> u gotta at least say why
<Hitman--> maybe the map maker will listen
Battery: Follower, while I love it and think it plays better than granary, is too close to granary and badlands to really be released as an official map.
Kerruption: It is no doubt a good map, but if I want to play follower I can just play granary or badlands. Community maps should be chosen for not only being good, but for also being unique or interesting.
FreeLance_Fox: People who say cp_follower really just make me shiver a bit. It may play well but it's basically a direct copy pasta of granary and badlands, which VilePickle admitted. Leave it to comp play where it belongs, because granary and badlands are already official. That's just my opinion.
MarryMeFusion: maps almost as bad as viles new one
Flobee: People like Granary, right? But this is a customs server, so we can't play it here.
Meet CP_Follower.
The map author claims he was "influenced" by Granary and Badlands. However, what he seems to have done is pretty much taken Granary, made a few changes here and there, replaced the middle point entirely with the middle point from Badlands, and given it an alpine theme.
Paper Shadow: Personally, I found it was too much like Granary and Badlands. It was like looking in a broken mirror...
<brownymaster> what i dislike about follwoer is it tries a bit too hard to be gran badlands
<grape> its like granary/badland
<brambles> that's what I 've heard
<grape> in swiss theme
<brambles> sounds good to me
<Angeless> That map is garbage
<Angeless> kthnx
<Larson> i like that map
<brambles> why's it bad?
<asianRanger> GRABAGE
<Larson> yea
<brambles> isn't it standard 5 point
<PapaSmurf> mid is too open
<asianRanger> aaha im jk
<Angeless> Its fucking huge
<Angeless> for 1 thing
<Angeless> iuno what version i just played, but it was HUGE
<Angeless> i feel bad for Heavy's on that map
<Tormented_Soul> fuck heavys anyways
<Angeless> its too big for a 6 v 6
<Angeless> maybe 12 on 12 Pub
OK Mr. "fucking huge garbage":
Manta: If ever there was proof that it was just a granary remake, that would be it.
Apparently the map is too big.
Timmah!: I think the main problem is that people don't like to spend a 2 minute trek to get to the battle after every death. Granary is big, but follower is ginormous.
<Kles> vilepickle is so overrated :/
<Div`TinyHotDogs> Kles thinks using ideas from maps people liked is a sin
<Kles> argh you are so stupid.
<Kles> is that what you actually believe
<Pandemic-carnage> VilePickle i like your idea with follower, just think its extremely big
<Pandemic-carnage> hard to push points
<Kles> yeah it looks really... fat
Pokemaster: The area between second and mid with the greenhouse seems a bit too big I think.
double dragon: rating: 2
likes: it was similar to badlands and granary
dislikes: it was different to badlands and granary
Rake: cp2 -> cp3 is too large and difficult to push back. The map is alright but just gran and badlands points, would rather something that takes the design concepts of the two maps instead of just copying their points
Benny84: Huge mid point. Middle point (and the rest of the map in general) has way too many small enterances and exits.
jinxxx: but overrall the map is way too big for 6's. I could see highlander / 8's really going off on this map!
MadMax: Seems a bit large for 6 v 6, but it was our first 6 v 6 game, and frankly I doubt any maps would seem the right size for a 6 v 6, but as we haven't played any other map in this format I guess time will tell.
Antiphon: Dislikes:
Midcaps size and depth. way too big that higher ground advantage is nulled by the sheer size
icewind: A lot of nooks and crannies keeps things interesting, but at the same time makes the map a little too big and sniper-orientated. The design itself is a little uninspired since it's just stealing from gran and bl, but the green and white looks awesome.
DarK: Dislikes: Complexity, too many doorways leading on to mid for example, Valve made maps are polished and simple, it's easy to see the differnece in custom maps. Any bigger custom maps that make you go 'err how do I get out of spawn' should be ruled out immediately. It will only increase dislike.
noobifier: too big, there are too many passages from 3->2 that holding the open area is pretty much impossible..
olivz: Dislikes: Too open at midpoint, a bit too large.
VicTheBitter: very big, needs a monorail
Definitely agree with the above posts about being a good map for bigger games.
Crunch: diskiles: just about everything else...size, messiness of midpoint, is a very rollable map..get downed on mid you almost certainly need to defend final and even then you have pretty much no chance..
Atticus: Dislikes:
- Too big as a whole and especially in certain parts (yard between cp 2-3)
- Lacks a polished feel
Uniin: middle just seemed like there were WAY to many points of entry/get around, last felt like it was unfinnished, push'es to last seemed almost slower then normal tf2 play due to the size of it
c2i`geomanis: Too large, hard to cover the 2 entrances to middle (3 if you include dropdown, which only soldiers/demoman can get up). Points are carbon copies of gran/badlands, but they still fail. Map is TOO Good for snipers, Choke points are hardly spammable. Opposing team on middle point has way too much freedom of movement, and can easily dodge all spam from soldiers and demo, thus requiring a decent sniper to take care of the damage part. Scout feels bad to play on the map due to its largeness, and the inability to use any kind of terrain or positioning to your advantage. Bad map, 1.